Ground and Pound and Return to Sender, by Loren W. Christensen

[** Serge **]

                             

Ground and Pound

Let’s say you defend yourself against an attacker by slamming a hard roundhouse kick into the peroneal nerve on the outside of his thigh, sending him crashing to the floor, stunned and helpless. Seeing an opportunity to administer some serious payback, you unleash on him a hailstorm of punches, kicks, and a few head slams into the pavement.

MMA folks have coined the term “ground and pound” for this sort of finishing technique, a phrase used in competition to describe the repeated striking of a downed opponent until the referee calls stop. Outside the ring, law enforcement has a term for it, too. They call it “jail time” — for you. Attorneys have one as well. They call it “give my client your house and your bank account.”

In short, understand that administering a so-called ground and pound in a street self-defense situation places you at risk of criminal charges and being sued civilly for using force that was unnecessary and unreasonable.

A savvy prosecuting attorney will likely bring up the term “ground and pound” to describe how your actions were out of control and went far beyond what was necessary to protect yourself or to protect someone else. “You knocked the attacker to the ground, but instead of taking the opportunity to flee, you chose to beat him senseless.”

Of course, if the knocked-down attacker is still capable of causing you or someone else harm (you must be able to articulate how he is capable of this), you can continue to use reasonable force to restrain or stop him in some other way.

Return to Sender

I know you’ve seen these clips on YouTube. The master blocks the student’s knife thrust, snatches the blade away, and then fillets the guy into a dozen little imaginary chunks. It’s like the master is going all Julia-Childs-on-a-bad-acid-trip on the guy.

Some knife aficionados call this counter “return to sender.” Refer to the above paragraph to see what cops, prosecutors, and civil attorneys call it.

You do not have a right to use deadly force on someone you just disarmed. In fact, some attorneys will successfully switch it around to say that their unarmed client had a right to defend himself against you. Outrageous? Sure, just like it’s outrageous for burglars to sue homeowners because they were injured in the course of breaking in. But they do, and some win.

If you disarm the knife and the attacker has another blade or a gun, or he picks up some other kind of dangerous weapon, it can be argued that you have a right to cut him with the newly obtained knife, but only if there are no escape options. Do train to defend against a knife and to take it away from the attacker, but know when and how you can return it to sender.


• Use only necessary and reasonable force when acting in self-defense.

• Use return to sender only if a deadly threat remains after you have removed the weapon.

• Keep “ground and pound” out of your vocabulary, even if you’re a competitor.

• Be prepared to explain how the term does not describe your personal code of self-defense and training philosophy.

• Be ready to explain that you based your force on the action/reaction format. “The attacker assaulted me [the act], and I responded in self-defense [the reaction]. I continued to defend myself until I had an opportunity to flee (or until I got the attacker under control).”


Save yourself a lot of money and grief by training to get away from the attacker after he has been stunned. Untangle yourself, scoot away from him, get up, and flee. If you have no other choice than to hit him further, do so only enough to give you an opportunity to flee. Or if the situation is such that you have to restrain him, use a pain technique that encourages his cooperation rather than one that causes serious bodily injury.

Take it from a guy who has seen many lives ruined by a burst of temper, an ego-satisfying need for payback, or a final cheap shot. Don’t do it.

Resist the desire and live a hassle-free life.

Loren Christensen is the author of two dozen Paladin books and videos, including Fighting Dirty, Fighting in the Clinch (with Mark Mireles), and The Brutal Art of Ripping, Poking, and Pressing Vital Targets. Loren was a military policeman in Saigon during the Vietnam War and retired from the Portland, Oregon, Police Department after more than two decades of service. He can be contacted through his website at www.lwcbooks.com

Loren Christensen © 2012 - Paladin Press

http://paladinplanet.blogspot.com/2012/01/ground-and-pound-and-return-to-sender.html

[remy b]

Plein de bon sens. 

[n.iko]

Superbe article.
Comme souvent avec Loren Christensen.
Ses livres sont définitivement des must read. Vraiment.

L'article est plein de bon sens.

Comme toujours à contextualiser, ici dans le background est celui d'un pays où le MMA prend une dimension vraiment énorme.

Cela montre aussi que le phénomène du MMA est nettement plus large que "seulement" que the next big thing en matière sportive, puisqu'on voit un impact en matière juridique.

Ca a le mérite de montrer l'après.
Le moment où il faut le cas échéant assumer devant une juridiction, au niveau légal, humain et financier.

LE truc auquel "on" ne veut pas penser.

Franchement rien que la visualisation, c'est flippant.

[Eric Lem]

Pffff, c'est chiant... 'faut réfléchir en plus..

Moi, je préférais "MVJP12QPP6" 

[** Serge **]

..... tu as exactement compris le cheminement de la pensée de ton pote âgé et ce que j'avais en ligne de mire . Comme d'hab' 

[promeneur-solitaire]

Euh ... Oui, plein de bon sens

... Au regard du juridique (lequel est sage mais pas toujours infaillible)

Faut juste que les malfaisants ne connaissent pas notre localisation

Parce que ... passer son temps à regarder derrière soi et craindre pour soi et/ou sa petite famille ...
Et on finit par se dire que le bon sens n'est pas si évident et la ligne de conduite pas si limpide.

Eric et Serge
Pourriez expliciter le private joke  pour les non-initiés ?
Si c'est signifiant, bien sûr!

Merci

[sharky]

Pourriez expliciter le private joke  pour les non-initiés ?
Si c'est signifiant, bien sûr!

Merci

MVJP12QPP6: Mieux vaut être jugé par .....

[promeneur-solitaire]

Thanks a lot 

... Un acronyme que je me garde de côté
Et une maxime à laquelle je souscris pleinement

[n.iko]

Pourriez expliciter le private joke  pour les non-initiés ?
Si c'est signifiant, bien sûr!

Tu l'auras deviné, je ne suis ni Serge ni Eric.  

Ceci dit si je ne me trompe pas, Eric fait reference à la traduction en français de la maxime "I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6", qui énonce qu'en gros il vaut mieux se retrouver devant un jury (12 personnes) que mort (6 personnes qui portent un cercueil).

C'est une maxime que l'on trouve sur à peu près tous les fora de SD du monde et qui, sortie de son contexte initial et déformée, sert à "justifier" l'emploi de moyens disproportionnés par rapport à la menace réelle.

C'est ma compréhension du truc.  

[sharky]

Thanks a lot 

Et une maxime à laquelle je souscris pleinement

Justement, c'est que t'es passé à côté d'où voulait aller Serge

[n.iko]

Justement, c'est que t'es passé à côté d'où voulait aller Serge

Puisqu'apparemment c'est de saison. 

Cela me conforte dans l'idée que la lecture du Frère James Grey n'est jamais superflue.

http://www.deathvalleymag.com/2010/06/22/urban-survival-lethal-force-wile-defending-yourself-and-your-family-%E2%80%93-how-i-c-my-a/

Fast forward 20 months…

You are eight months into a 6 year prison sentence getting man raped every night by your cell-mate, your wife and kids are living in a spare bedroom in your elderly moms house, you are bankrupt from the legal bills and because the “victims” families have sued you for everything and won, your daughter has strep throat and your wife can’t afford to take her to the doctor so she suffers in pain.

[** Serge **]

I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6 peut être contextuellement incontournable, malheureusement. Mais, il vaut mieux que le principe ne devienne pas une pierre angulaire.

C'est, un peu, ce qui est suggéré entre les lignes.

[promeneur-solitaire]

Justement, c'est que t'es passé à côté d'où voulait aller Serge

Alors, daigne jeter quelques perles de sagesse explicatives sur le misèrable ignorant que je suis
O sage sachem 

[sharky]

Alors, daigne jeter quelques perles de sagesse explicatives sur le misèrable ignorant que je suis
O sage sachem 

Ce n'était pas le sens de mon intervention.
Sinon, ta réponse se trouve dans le post de Serge juste au dessus du tien.

[promeneur-solitaire]

Ce n'était pas le sens de mon intervention.
Sinon, ta réponse se trouve dans le post de Serge juste au dessus du tien.

I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6 peut être contextuellement incontournable, malheureusement. Mais, il vaut mieux que le principe ne devienne pas une pierre angulaire.

C'est, un peu, ce qui est suggéré entre les lignes.

Alors, on est d'accord
Et quelque belle que soit cette maxime, elle doit être interprètée avec discernement (mais j'y souscris toujours dans son principe)

Merci à vous

[flocondavoine]

Quid de la prise en compte lors d'un jugement de l'état émotionnel du défenseur ?
J'imagine que les réactions sous stress (adrenalin jump stress ?) ont fait l'objet de nombreuses études ?

[** Serge **]

http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/adrenal.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tachypsychia

Courtesy of Geoff Thompson :

http://www.geoffthompson.com/media/ArtofFighting.pdf

http://www.geoffthompson.com - © 1998